Nora and Nathan discuss the second studio album from Gracie Abrams: 'The Secret of Us.' They then talk about Taylor Swift's influence on and close relationship with Abrams, as well as whether that's helping or hurting Abrams's music

Later, they get into how her songs feel the strongest when her lyrics are plain-spoken

and how, with this album, it seems like Abrams is still trying to find her distinct musical sound