<p>Debbie talks to designer Clement Mok about the early days of Apple computer, the heady days of the software bubble, and the joys of working for Steve Jobs.</p>

Jonathan Fields

Design Matters with Debbie Millman is one of the world’s very first podcasts. Broadcasting independently for over 15 years, the show is about how incredibly creative people design the arc of their lives. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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