A neuroscientist argues that the focus on dreams has held back the scientific understanding of sleep. So he took dreams out of the picture and uncovered a new potential connection between the mind and body.

Guest: Mark Blumberg, behavioral neuroscientist at the University of Iowa

For show transcripts, go to vox.com/unxtranscripts

For more, go to vox.com/unexplainable

And please email us! unexplainable@vox.com

We read every email.

Support Unexplainable by becoming a Vox Member today: vox.com/members

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices