In this special episode, Chuck is joined by Graham Campbell, director of Economics & Research for the New Zealand Infrastructure Commission. They discuss the true cost of infrastructure — and why both New Zealand and North America are facing the same financial and structural challenges.ADDITIONAL SHOW NOTESChuck Marohn (Substack)Want to bring the conversation to your city? Book Chuck Marohn as a speaker. This podcast is made possible by Strong Towns members. Click here to learn more about membership, including member-exclusive perks.