Chuck Marohn interviews Kate Herzog, one of the first members of Strong Towns and Marketing & Assistant Director of Downtown Bismarck in Bismarck, ND. Chuck and Kate discuss the economic and political challenges in the Bismarck area and what Downtown Bismarck is doing about it. They also discuss a "renaissance zone" in Bismarck and the benefits and drawbacks of that program, as well as comparisons with tax increment financing (TIF) programs.