The level of student debt in this country represents a massive policy error. But is forgiving up to $20,000 of student debt really the best way to help low-income Americans, or fix the nation's education-financing problems? The Atlantic's Jerusalem Demsas joins Derek to discuss the student loan forgiveness debate and weigh the positives and negatives of Biden's controversial new policy.

If you have questions, observations, or ideas for future episodes, email us at PlainEnglish@Spotify.com. You can find us on TikTok at www.tiktok.com/@plainenglish_

Host: Derek Thompson

Guest: Jerusalem Demsas

Producer: Devon Manze

Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices