Perpetual Chess Podcast
Perpetual Chess Podcast
Ben Johnson
EP 477- Jennifer Shahade on Cheating, AI, and Thinking Like a Chess Player
59 minutes Posted Apr 7, 2026 at 8:00 am.
Intro-
Jen Shahade joins me. How did she find reformed chess cheaters to interview? What did she learn from talking with them for her book?
What is “MTR”?
Working with legendary trainer IM Mark Dvoretsky
Lessons learned from interviewing a memory champion
Jen’s experiences coding with Claude
What is “the Einstellung effect”?
Jen’s chess-related conversation with legendary psychologist and author Daniel Kahneman
How chess master and Alpha Zero creator Demis Hassabas “thought sideways” to secure funding for his start up.
Observations from the recent Sloan sports analytic conference
What is “the sandwich method”?
Upcoming book events for Jen
If you will be in NYC on May 12 and want to support a good cause, come see Jen and I at this event.
Thanks to Jen for joining me again, here is where to order her book.
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Show notes
Jennifer Shahade is a two-time U.S. Women’s Champion, poker professional, commentator, and acclaimed author. This week, she returns to the pod to discuss her new book Thinking Sideways: How to Think Like a Chess Player and Win at Life. Drawing on chess, poker, and psychology, Jen shares practical tips and memorable stories about decision-making, creativity, and improvement.
We discuss:
Why she interviewed reformed chess cheaters and what their stories reveal about ambition
Helpful advice for remembering opening lines
The “Einstellung Effect” and how to avoid missing better ideas
How AI is changing the way we learn and think
We also catch up on Jen’s recent travels and upcoming events. There is a lot to learn and plenty of great stories along the way.
Jen Shahade and US Chess announce a settlement:
https://x.com/KenneyBaden/status/2039375140534767852?s=20
Mentioned: Netflix Untold Documentary about the Niemann-Carlsen story 
https://www.netflix.com/title/81582391
Mentioned: Yanjaa Wintersoul, GM Sam Shankland 
Check out the links to the app she built here:
https://jenshahade.substack.com/p/spin-the-wheel-vibe-a-move
You can buy tickets to the Chess in the Schools Poker/Chess Fundraiser here:
https://secure.givelively.org/event/chess-in-the-schools-inc/chess-in-the-schools-3rd-annual-charity-poker-tournament
 
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Thinking-Sideways/Jennifer-Shahade/9798897100729
https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-Sideways-Think-Chess-Player/dp/B0FCDDB8XV 
Photo in thumbnail by Maria Emelianova
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