<p>Debbie talks to Amanda about her wild and wandering path to the rock stage, and about how behind her artistic ambitions is the drive to feel real.</p>

Caroline Paul

Design Matters with Debbie Millman is one of the world’s very first podcasts. Broadcasting independently for over 15 years, the show is about how incredibly creative people design the arc of their lives. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

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